Insanity–
In order to be found guilty, a person must have: actus reus (guilty act) + mens era (guilty
mind or intention of guilt.
–
Insanity defense: person is so mentally incapacitated that they did not have mens rea when
they committed the act (drug/alcohol intoxication excluded)
–
–
Insanity is a legal term (not a psychological or medical term
Defined in various ways
Insanity Defense Rule
• M’Naghton/McNaughten Rule (1843): at the time of the crime, the individual was so “affected by
a disease of the mind” that they didn’t know what they were doing or didn’t know it was wrong.
• Irresistible Impulse Rule (1934): at the time of the crime, the individual was driven by an
“irresistible impulse” to perform the act or could not resist performing the act
– “Policeman at the elbow”
• Durham Rule (1954): the crime was a product of a “mental disease or defect”
• American Legal Institute (ALI) Rule (1962): At the time of the crime, as a result of a “mental
disease or defect”, the person was unable to either: (1) know their behavior was wrong, or (2)
control their actions.
• Insanity Defense Reform Act (1984): at the time of the crime, as a result of “mental disease or
mental retardation”, the person did not know their behavior was wrong (used by Federal Govt &
many states); also burden of proof rests on defense
• Controversial: While perceived as a means by which guilty people “get off”, the insanity defense is
used much less often than many think.
• Fewer than 1 in 100 defendants in felony cases file insanity pleas, and of these only 26% result in
acquittal.
• Defendants found NGRI serve at least as much time (if not more) than if they were found guilty of
the offense.
Guilty But Mentally Ill (GBMI)
Guilty but mentally ill (AZ and other states): defendants incarcerated normal term for crime, but
their mental illness is recognized.
– No guarantee defendant receives treatment for their mental illness.
Competence to Stand Trial
• People who don’t understand what is happening to them in a courtroom and who cannot
participate in their own defense are said to be incompetent to stand trial.
• Defense attorneys suspect impaired competence in their clients in up to 10% of cases. Colin
Ferguson
1) Explain what the M’Naghten test for determining insanity is. Explain what it
means in plain language.
2) Read through the subset of transcripts of an interview between a psychiatrist
(PD) and a defendant (AY) [below this assignment; since this the Insanity Defense is
typically used for capital murder cases, please keep in mind that the defendant describes the murders, and
students may find these descriptions disturbing], and identify all aspects of the interview that
indicate the defendant meets the M’Naghten test for insanity.
3) Identify aspects of the interview that indicate the defendant does NOT meet the
M’Naghten test for insanity
4) If you were sitting on the jury, based on this section of transcript, and the
M’Naghten test, would you vote ‘Guilty’ or ‘Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity’?
Explain your reasons.
5) Are there any (other) other tests for insanity under which you believe AY could
be found NGRI? Explain which one(s).
PD= Psychiatrist who was interviewing defendent
AY= Defendant
[pp. XXX] = pages from transcripts
Between her discharge from inpatient care at Devereux on 5/14/01 and the time
of the homicides, the defendent reports, she experienced a number of delusions
of reference in connection with the movies and television [pp. 106-108], felt the
presence of Satan in her home (“He seemed to be targeting me for certain
things.”) [p. 105], and felt that she wasn’t being a good mother because she was
neglecting her children, wasn’t very affectionate with them, and didn’t discipline
them [p. 107]. She did not tell Dr. S about her delusions of reference, but she did
tell her husband about them prior to the homicides [p. 107]. She continued to
believe that a child protective agency or Dr. St had cameras in her home [p. 109].
The defendant’s thinking in this time frame is important to the central issue in this
case, so I quote at length from my examination of her:
PD: What were you thinking about the children?
AY: Well, I guess I was thinking about . . . probably planning what I was gonna
do.
PD: I don’t want you to guess. I want you to tell me as best you can remember.
AY: Right.
PD: What can you remember about any planning?
AY: About drowning them.
PD: What were you thinking?
AY: What was I thinking? Why to do it?
PD: Yes.
AY: Because I didn’t want them tormented by Satan like I was.
PD: Was Satan tormenting you then?
AY: Yes, I believe so.
PD: In what way?
AY: Just the thoughts. Bad thoughts.
PD: Tell me as much about those thoughts as you can.
AY: There was the thoughts about the TVs, and cameras in the house, and afraid
Satan would ruin my children through himself, and that maybe even that I had
some Satan in me. [P. 111.]
***
AY: I just felt like he was inside giving me directions.
PD: What directions?
AY: About harming the children.
PD: How did he give you directions?
AY: Well, eventually I thought of a way out to drown them.
PD: And how would that be a way out?
AY: A way out?
PD: How would that be a way out?
AY: For the children?
PD: Yes.
AY: They would go to heaven and be safe up there.
PD: How would that happen?
AY: After I . . . if I kill them they went up to heaven to be with God and be safe.
PD: And you figured that was a way out of what?
AY: It’s not a way out. It’s just something I was told to do.
PD: Who told you to do that?
AY: Satan.
PD: Satan told you that would send your children to heaven?
AY: No.To kill them.
PD: How did he tell you that?
AY: He just put the thoughts in my head.
PD: Did you know where they came from?
AY: The thoughts?
PD: Yes.
AY: No.
PD: Did you think they were coming from Satan?
AY: Yes.
PD: Did you think that before you did it?
AY: Think about Satan?
PD: Yes, that the thoughts were coming from Satan?
AY: Yes.
PD: Did you think that it was a good idea?
AY: Well, yes at the time I did.
PD: Explain your thinking to me.
AY: Well, I didn’t want them ruined, and I was afraid being around him, they
would continue to go downhill. And I thought I should save them before that
happened.
Defendant’s Account of the Offense
To the best of my knowledge, the only recorded accounts of the offense are from
the day of arrest (6/20/01), from Dr. R’s examination (11/3/01), and from my
examination (11/7/01). The defendent also gave accounts repeatedly to others
who did not record or recorded only portions of their interviews. As is commonly
the case, discrepancies arise with repeated retellings of an event, due to a
variety of causes, such as a change in mental status, forgetting, or the effects of
persuasion, coaching, or suggestive or leading questioning. The account the
defendant gave me differs from the account given to the police not only with
respect to the sequence of homicides reported, but also with respect to her
statements concerning motive and thought processes. The account she gave me
is quoted here at length:
PD: When you got up that morning, on the twentieth, did you know that that was
going to be the day?
AY: Yes.
PD: When had you decided that?
AY: The night before.
PD: Did you share that with anyone?
AY: [Negative]
PD: Had you talked to your husband at all about the seven deadly sins?
AY: No.
PD: Had you talked to him about Satan’s presence?
AY: [Negative]
PD: Why not?
AY: I was afraid.
PD: What were you afraid would happen?
AY: I wouldn’t do what I was supposed to do. I couldn’t do it with him in the
house.
PD: And what would happen if you didn’t do what you were supposed to do?
AY: Children would still be alive.
PD: And then what?
AY: I would still worry about their soul with Satan around.
PD: So, do I understand correctly that you were worried that if you told Your
husband, he would interfere, and the children would still be in danger?
AY: Yes.
PD: Their souls would be in danger from Satan?
AY: Yes.
PD: So in the morning, when you got up, did you try to act as normal as
possible?
AY: Yes.
PD: You were trying to make sure that he didn’t know that there was something
unusual going on?
AY: Yes.
PD: Because you knew that if he observed something out of the ordinary he
would interfere?
AY: Yes.
PD: So what did you do then?
AY: What did I do?
PD: Before he left, what were you doing?
AY: Oh, having breakfast.The kids were eating breakfast, and My husband left
the house about 9:00.
PD: And did you feed Mary?
AY: Yes.
PD: What did you feed her?
AY: Formula.
PD: What time were you expecting Dora?
AY: Ten.
PD: Did you lock the house?
AY: No.
PD: So the front door was unlocked?
AY: It was already locked from the night before.
PD: What door did Your husband go out?
AY: Um, the garage door I think. [Pp. 117–118.]
***
PD: Did you pull any blinds?
AY: No.
PD: Drapes?
AY: No.
PD: Did you take the phone off the hook?
AY: No.
PD: Did you make any other special preparations?
AT: I just started drawing the water.
PD: Is there a stopper in the bottom of the tub?
AY: Yes.
PD: How do you activate it?
AY: It’s a, a loose one, loose rubber stopper that you can pull out. It wasn’t
attached to the faucet.
PD: So you put that in?
AY: Yes.
PD: Filled the tub? What temperature were you trying to make it?
AY: Just whatever it was set at. Cold water.
PD: It was cold, it wasn’t warm?
AY: I think it was cold.
PD: Was there any reason for that?
AY: No. [Pp. 118-119.]
***
PD: Had you taken your medication?
AY: In the morning time?
PD: Yes.
AY: I think I did.
PD: But you were no longer taking Haldol?
AY: Right.
PD: And had you been taking all the medication that had been prescribed the last
three weeks?
AY: Yes.
PD: Since you were out of the hospital you took everything you were supposed
to?
AY: Yes.
PD: Did you have any additional thoughts that morning that you hadn’t had
before?
AY: No.
PD: Any thoughts you didn’t tell me about?
AY: I was just thinking about the tub.
PD: Do you know if you had any thoughts that morning about a prophecy?
AY: [Negative]
PD: Were you still thinking about the seven deadly sins?
AY: Yes.
PD: You used the phrase that you were “supposed to do this.” What do you mean
by that?
AY: Well, it needed to be done for the children’s sake, I felt.
PD: Was there any doubt about that in your mind?
AY: No, I wasn’t thinking about doubt.
PD: How certain were you that it needed to be done?
AY: I just thought it needed to be done.
PD: And the benefits to the children would be what?
AY: Eternal life in heaven.
PD: And who would pay the cost?
AY: Who would pay?
PD: Yeah, would somebody have to pay a cost for that?
AY: You mean, my cost?
PD: Yes.
AY: Yes, it would probably cost.
PD: What would that cost be?
AY: You mean like jail time, or?
PD: Whatever you were thinking, what were you thinking that morning?
AY: Probably punishment.
PD: How did you think you’d be punished?
AY: Jail.
PD: So you thought that you’d be arrested and put in jail?
AY: Yes.
PD: Did you think there would be other punishment for you?
AY: I wasn’t thinking anything else.
PD: But you did think it was illegal?
AY: Yes.
PD: Did you feel a conflict?
AY: Doing it . . . not doing it?
PD: Yes.
AY: No, I set it in my mind to do it.
PD: Was there an earlier time when you felt a conflict about it?
AY: Yes.
PD: What had the conflict been earlier?
AY: The same.
PD: Same as what?
AY: The time I had a conflict before.
PD: And what was that? What was that conflict?
AY: Doing it or not doing it.
PD: And what were the factors weighing on each side?
AY: Well, doing it would take them to heaven, and not doing it there’d be a risk of
Satan messing them up.
PD: What about for you?
AY: What would happen to me?
PD: Yes. If you did it or didn’t do it, what were you thinking would happen to you?
AY: Probably if I did it, I would get in trouble.
PD: And if you didn’t do it?
AY: It would still be with us.
PD: What would?
AY: The children.
PD: How did you resolve that conflict? Anything that helped you make up your
mind?
AY: No, I just decided that it needed to be done.
PD: Do you know when you made that decision?
AY: The night before.
PD: The night before is when you became certain? But you were planning for
about a week?
AY: Yes.
PD: Or was it about a month?
AY: A month rather, yes.
PD: Do you recall any of the other thoughts you were having around that time?
AY: Just . . . just getting ready for the drownings.
PD: Were you thinking about being a bad mother?
AY: Yes.
PD: What were you thinking about that?
AY: That I probably . . . if . . . if they remained here, I would have a harder time
dealing with them if Satan was involved.
PD: Satan was going to make them more disobedient?
AY: Yes.
PD: Is that right? Did you feel that you had damaged the children somehow?
AY: Yes.
PD: What was that?
AY: Well, it seemed like I might have ruined them to learning new things. Their
behavior was starting to regress.
PD: So what did you think you had done to ruin them?
AY: Just not being a good mother and not being affectionate with them or
spending time with them.
PD: Was there some point at which you thought you might have made some of
the children retarded?
AY: I had felt like some were regressing in that way. Luke wasn’t talking very
clearly at that point, and the other kids behaviorally were slacking off.
PD: And you thought that was your fault?
AY: Yes.
PD: And that that would continue to worsen?
AY: Yes.
PD: Did you think that Satan was doing that?
AY: He does tempt people. Yes. And if you’re weak, you can’t overcome that
temptation.
PD: And you were weak then?
AY: Yes.
PD: Was he tempting you?
AY: No.
PD: Did you sense the presence of Satan that morning?
AY: Yes.
PD: How did you experience that?
AY: In urging me on.
PD: How?
AY: Just helping me set up the tub and getting ready.
PD: Did you feel encouraged?
AY: Yes.
PD: Did you hear anything encouraging you?
AY: No. Just thoughts.
PD: Just thoughts. What were those thoughts?
AY: That I needed to go ahead and do it.
PD: Anything else?
AY: No.
PD: And tell me what you went ahead and did.
AY: The drownings. They, um, I drew up the water, and My husband had already
left for work that day, and I went in the bathroom, and I set Mary on the floor. And
while I was filling the tub, Paul came in, and he sat on the tub and he said, he
said, “Mommy are we gonna take a bath today?” And then he asked again, and I
didn’t answer him. I put him in the water for a couple minutes, and when it was
through, I took him and laid him down on my bed, our bed. And I went back in the
bathroom, and John had wandered in . . . and then I put him in for a couple
minutes. And Luke was close by. And I put him in. And I moved John on the bed.
I put Luke on the bed. And I called for Noah from the kitchen. He came to me,
and I led him to the bathtub. Before—before Noah, I did Mary. Mary was still in
the tub when he came in. He said, “Mommy what’s wrong with Mary?” I put
him in the tub. Then I called the police to come to the house, and I called My
husband to come home. [Pp.
119-122.]
***
PD: Did you put John and Luke in the bed at the same time?
AY: Yes.
PD: Where was John when you were drowning Luke?
AY: He was in the tub.
PD: So, they were both in the tub at the same time, and then the same thing
happened with Mary and Noah?
AY: Yes.
PD: They were both in the tub at the same time. Did the children struggle?
AY: [Affirmative]
PD: Every one of them?
AY: Except Mary. She wasn’t strong enough. Noah the most, because he was
the biggest.
PD: Did he say anything else to you?
AY: When he came up out of the water and said something, but I didn’t know
what it was. It was like “I’m sor—,” and I didn’t hear the rest. I don’t know
if he was saying, “I’m sorry,” or what. [P. 123] * * *
PD: How did you overcome their resistance? What did you do?
AY: I just held them down.
PD: With both hands?
AY: Yes.
PD: Where, where did you grasp?
AY: I guess their head, their back.
PD: And did Luke try to run out of the room?
AY: No, he was standing there watching.
PD: What do you mean?
AY: Huh?
PD: He was standing there watching? He watched what?
AY: One of his brothers drown.
PD: Luke watched?
AY: I didn’t know he was behind me.
PD: Oh. And then what did he do?
AY: I put him in the tub.
PD: Did he fight you?
AY: A little bit. He’s the smallest one, besides Mary.
PD: Did one of the boys try to run out of the room?
AY: [Negative] [Pp. 135-136.]
***
PD: Why did you call the police?
AY: I thought I had to.
PD: Why?
AY: Because of what I did.
PD: Why was it the police you called?
AY: Because that’s who you call.
PD: When what?
AY: When you’ve done something wrong.
PD: Did you think you had done something wrong?
AY: Yes.
PD: Before you did it, did you think it would be wrong to do it?
AY: No.
PD: When did you think it was wrong?
AY: When I called the police.
PD: Before you did it, did you think it was the right thing to do?
AY: Yes.
PD: And why is that?
AY: Because of my feeling that they would be tormented by Satan if I didn’t.
PD: But if you did, then what?
AY: Then they wouldn’t be tormented.
PD: Well, afterwards, why did you think it was wrong?
AY: ‘Cause I did what I did.
PD: But had you done the right thing or the wrong thing?
AY: I thought, in my opinion, it was the right thing.
PD: Well, then what do you mean when you say you’d done something wrong?
AY: Killing the children.
PD: As you drowned each one, did you think that it was the right thing to be
doing?
AY: [Affirmative]
PD: For the reason you gave.
AY: [Affirmative]
PD: When police came, do you remember what you told them?
AY: Well, they came, and I opened the door, and I told them I killed my children,
and I led them down the hall to where they were. [P. 124.]
***
PD: The police report indicates that the police asked you if you had ever tried to
kill the children before, and you said you had been close to it, but had stopped,
and went on to say that about two months ago you filled the bathtub with water
and you were going to drown the children, but you didn’t carry out the plan.
That’s a little different from what you told me. You told me that you weren’t going
to drown the children that time. That you just thought you needed to fill the tub
because you saw the water truck. Which of those is correct?
AY: I, I didn’t do it because I knew that they were coming home.
PD: They already were home.
AY: My husband coming home, Dora was home.
PD: Dora was home, right?
AY: Yes.
PD: But were you going to do it then?
AY: No.
PD: And the police wrote that you said that you weren’t a good mother to your
children and you wanted to be punished and that you were prepared to go to hell
for what you had done.
AY: That’s what I told the police officer?
PD: Yes. Which is what you just mentioned to me. Why did you think you’d go to
hell for it?
AY: Because it’s wrong.
PD: So beforehand, you thought it was a sin to do it?
AY: [Affirmative]
PD: And afterwards you thought that what you did was illegal and you needed to
call the police?
AY: [Affirmative]
PD: And you thought it was wrong and you would go to hell?
AY: [Affirmative]
PD: But at the same time you’re saying that you believed it was a way to save the
children’s souls from Satan?
AY: Yes.
PD: How did you think your husband would judge this?
AY: He would think it was bad.
PD: How did you think society would judge it?
AY: As bad.
PD: How did you think God would judge it?
AY: That it was bad.
PD: Was there some standpoint from which it was good?
AY: My earlier thoughts.
PD: You believed that it would save the children’s souls?
AY: [Affirmative] [Pp. 126-127.]
***
PD: At the time you didn’t feel you were struggling against Satan?
AY: No.
PD: You felt he had taken over?
AY: He was nearby; early on I didn’t think he was in me.
PD: When did you first think he was in you?
AY: When I was arrested.
PD: So you didn’t feel he was in you while you were drowning the children? It
was afterwards?
AY: Yes. I felt his presence.
PD: When?
AY: While I was doing it.
PD: His presence, or that he was in you?
AY: His presence. [P. 140.]
***
PD: Had Dora come to the house at 9:00 that morning, do you think you would
have done this?
AY: No.
PD: If there had been a policeman in the next room do you think you would have
done this?
AY: [Negative]
PD: Do you remember telling Dr. F that that wouldn’t have mattered because the
cameras were watching?
AY: No.
PD: Weren’t you concerned that if there were cameras in the ceiling, they would
see this?
AY: Yes, I did.
PD: So what did you do to prevent that from being a problem?
AY: I didn’t do anything.
PD: You didn’t try to cover the cameras?
AY: No.
PD: Did you try to be quick about it?
AY: I guess so. [Pp. 141-142.]
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